CTS Rotors

[RepsolJapan]

Where can I buy CTS rotors? I have looked or been looking at ctsmoto.com but no luck. I really would like to have them.

[salvaje]

I have been told Mike will have them out June or July 2007. I am on the waiting list........you can go behind me....:p

[RepsolJapan]

How did you get on the waiting list? How do I get on to one?
and also how much does these rotors cost?

[salvaje]

I was kidding about the waiting list, I just spoke with Mike a few times and he knows how badly everyone, including me, is waiting for these rotors to come out. I have not spoken to him about price but I am sure that will be available once he starts to manufacture them.

[RepsolJapan]

salvaje>Ouch, you got me:D
Thanks for you help I just wait then!!
By the way what kind of rims do you have on you bike?

[salvaje]

Stock '07 rims. I just polished the lips of the rims. Had to try and make the rims a little different.

[yamahonda]

Stock '07 rims. I just polished the lips of the rims. Had to try and make the rims a little different.

I just peeped your polished rims....pretty sweet. I like how there is still orange on em. I wonder if you could keep the rims orange and polish the spokes. Anyway, nice bike!

[salvaje]

Thanks, they were actually supposed to polish only up to the first lip and leave more orange but my partner decided to drop off my rims for me and never passed that bit of info to my polisher. Atleast he got the rotor polished correctly. :o

[Big Kahuna]

I know this is an old thread, but I though I'd give you all an update on the current status.

:thumbsup: The good news: The new rotors will be out in about a month.

:thumb_down: The bad news: Honda is one of the only manufactures that uses dished carriers, so it will take a little bit longer for him to figure out the most practical way to produce them for the masses. This of course means that you all interested in them for your bikes will have to wait just a bit longer.

:dblthumbsup: More good new: Independent testing of Mike's new rotors went better than he ever hoped. You'll have to wait until he release all the info, but you will be happy to know that these new rotors will not only look incredible, they will feel and perform incredible as well!

[cowboyadam]

I know this is an old thread, but I though I'd give you all an update on the current status.

:thumbsup: The good news: The new rotors will be out in about a month.

:thumb_down: The bad news: Honda is one of the only manufactures that uses dished carriers, so it will take a little bit longer for him to figure out the most practical way to produce them for the masses. This of course means that you all interested in them for your bikes will have to wait just a bit longer.

:dblthumbsup: More good new: Independent testing of Mike's new rotors went better than he ever hoped. You'll have to wait until he release all the info, but you will be happy to know that these new rotors will not only look incredible, they will feel and perform incredible as well!

Put me on the list ;) :D Those things will be hott with my new rims.

[browningbuck]

ahhhhhh!!! i have been holding off on the gaffers so i could get these.....i want these and now i have good reason to wait before i sink my carbon pads into these beasts. but dayum:mad: oh any word on the diff between the cost ???

and a quick question to at least the two that already have them, what did he do for the dish on yours???was it a CNC single piece??? if soo COOLLLLLL:D
!

[Nakkers]

Thanks for the update Bk, I take it there will be a matching rear in the set ?

[Big Kahuna]

I would assume they were machined from one solid piece. I saw a setup like this back when Mike had a booth at Laguna Seca. He had a mounted set hanging up on the wall. I just loved the way the carrier matched the twisting shape of the rotors. I knew that I would have them some day. :)

6431

[MogNo1]

Cool.....I'm seriously hanging out for a set of those rotors......any idea how they will cost for front and rear? Also considering CTSMoto is a distributor.....how do we go about getting hold of them? Are we able to buy direct?

[hondapowered]

:evilgrin: so cool gotta get the credit card freed up LOL I wana set fo sho:D

[O.A. for life]

put me down for a set!!!:D

[CTSmoto]

Ok gang.......

Start a list......

I will work out a special price for you guys and possibly some one off colors.

Depends on the interest.

We are getting killed with GSXR orders right now. I was hoping to wait and release the CBR rotors until we had our new Pat. Carrier material. It is much lighter than anything available and we hold the Pat. for the material itself.

I can make these rotors now with aluminum carriers in 310mm and can be available in 45-60 days. 320mm kits will be 60-90 days out.

We are currently making the carriers and rivets from 7175 T731 Miliitary spec billet aluminum. The new material is stronger and lighter but I won't have anything available for at least 4 months .

BK if you could start a list or a thread for those interseted in rotors that would be great.

I need your name, handle on the forum, size of rotors and color combinations.

Thanks for hanging in there. We are getting closer. :)

Mike
CTSmoto

[Jacobs Dad]

Ok gang.......

Start a list......

I will work out a special price for you guys and possibly some one off colors.

Depends on the interest.

We are getting killed with GSXR orders right now. I was hoping to wait and release the CBR rotors until we had our new Pat. Carrier material. It is much lighter than anything available and we hold the Pat. for the material itself.

I can make these rotors now with aluminum carriers in 310mm and can be available in 45-60 days. 320mm kits will be 60-90 days out.

We are currently making the carriers and rivets from 7175 T731 Miliitary spec billet aluminum. The new material is stronger and lighter but I won't have anything available for at least 4 months .

BK if you could start a list or a thread for those interseted in rotors that would be great.

I need your name, handle on the forum, size of rotors and color combinations.

Thanks for hanging in there. We are getting closer. :)

Mike
CTSmoto

I'm in, but will wait to see what the general public here is looking to do color/size wise, then I will go with the popular vote.:D

[jquick]

hey mike what do you suggest is the best size for the hondas??? as far as color how many diffrent color combos can we go with???

[O.A. for life]

I'm in, but will wait to see what the general public here is looking to do color/size wise, then I will go with the popular vote.:D

Ditto!

[CTSmoto]

the 04-05 came stock with 310mm the 06-07 came stock with 320mm rotors.
the 04-05 will accept 320mm rotors with the addition of a caliper spacer. In fact the 05-06 uses a caliper spacer from the factory.

I can make either but the 320mm will take longer.

As for colors. I will make you guys any color combinations you want.

Personally my 07 repsol will have gold carriers with red rivets.

Mike
CTSmoto

[Big Kahuna]

Sweet! I will make up a new thread for people interested in the new rotors.

I'm thinking Repsol Blue carriers with Red rivets would match my Pazzo levers perfectly. :)

Also, will you still be offering matching rear rotors?

[browningbuck]

stupid question, does the 600rr rotors match(so can i mount up these rotors on my 2005 600rr?) i will be more than happy to sign up and get in line for a set.:D

[CTSmoto]

stupid question, does the 600rr rotors match(so can i mount up these rotors on my 2005 600rr?) i will be more than happy to sign up and get in line for a set.:D

The 600rr is the same.

In fact I mounted a set of 05 600rr rotors on a 2004 1000rr recently.

Mike
CTSmoto

[CTSmoto]

Some recent pics of GSXR1000, ZX-68 amd ZX-10, 2005 Repsol.

This design is the Revolution Series.

I will post some specs later.


Mike
CTSmoto

[HARALD SPLODNIK]

I'm also in.
emailed mike today about these again and the sprocket which pazzos owner describes as a ctsmoto sprocket. Mike schooled me on the fact that their indeed from SUPERSPROX.
ordered mine today(sprocket that is):evilgrin:

[browningbuck]

now i know whihc i want....whats the eta on the super material???

if we want the 320, and are willing to wait does that come with the spacers for the clipers??

[CTSmoto]

now i know whihc i want....whats the eta on the super material???

if we want the 320, and are willing to wait does that come with the spacers for the clipers??

New material is 4 to 6 month out.

If you purchase a 320mm kit for a 310mm bike you will get spacers and new caliper bolts.

Mike
CTSmoto

[Big Kahuna]

Come on guys don't fall for the hype, bigger is not always better. 310mm will work perfect on your '07 models, and you won't have to use those dorky spacers or wait even longer for Mike to make the 320mm version.

Mike, didn't you explain to me once why smaller rotors work better than larger ones.

[Big Kahuna]

By the way, I see you have the gixxer all finished.

6482

Damn dude, that looks incredible!!!

[cowboyadam]

Come on guys don't fall for the hype, bigger is not always better. 310mm will work perfect on your '07 models, and you won't have to use those dorky spacers or wait even longer for Mike to make the 320mm version.

Mike, didn't you explain to me once why smaller rotors work better than larger ones.

Im so stoked to get these things I would consider the smaller ones, but I was going to wait for the

lighter metal anyways. Im too impatient for to wait so long though....

[DarkStarsRepsol]

I am soooooooooo in.

[Big Kahuna]

Im so stoked to get these things I would consider the smaller ones, but I was going to wait for the

lighter metal anyways. Im too impatient for to wait so long though....The lighter metal Mike was talking about is for the carriers and rivets. The rotors are already as good as it gets. :)

[cowboyadam]

The lighter metal Mike was talking about is for the carriers and rivets. The rotors are already as good as it gets. :)

Yeah thats what I though he meant. I figured if Im going to drop some coin on new rotors I might

as well go all out. And since they arent coming out for 4 months I would have plenty saved up

for the fully loaded versions. What is the weight difference anyways? If its not too much and doesnt

add any strength over the aluminium I would rather get the aluminium and have them sooner.

[DarkStarsRepsol]

BTW.....what are we looking at for a cost?

[DarkStarsRepsol]

Are you going to make available the Rear Rotor in matching color?.

[cowboyadam]

Are you going to make available the Rear Rotor in matching color?.

A rear floating rotor would be schaweet ;)

[browningbuck]

a floating rear guys??? come on...i dont see the practicality in it:confused2:....but if they were available i would buy them:evilgrin: my Sumo has them and its cool, but the street....yeah i still would want them:D

[Radical Rich]

Totally pimp. I shall be reading all the info I have several ??? But it will be sweeeet! Again any cost info?

[cowboyadam]

a floating rear guys??? come on...i dont see the practicality in it:confused2:....but if they were available i would buy them:evilgrin: my Sumo has them and its cool, but the street....yeah i still would want them:D

I know PVM makes them for their rims, which I have, so I thought it might be cool to have one. I think

they would serve the same purpose as a floating front. Im sure it would be way more expensive

anyways so Ill go with whatever is made to match the fronts.

[TX Repsol]

The new material is stronger and lighter but I won't have anything available for at least 4 months .

Any idea on the price difference between the current rotor and the new material??

And like everyone else asked, what sort of price are we looking at for the rotors?

I'm interested, but I can't commit blindly w/o knowing a price. If they're like $700 for a pair, that changes things...

[Big Kahuna]

I just realized that with all these Repsol owners interested in these rotors, I'm not going to be so special anymore.

[cowboyadam]

I just realized that with all these Repsol owners interested in these rotors, I'm not going to be so special anymore.

Youve been the cool kid long enough :evilgrin: :p Time for us to have some fun and bling our rides out.

[TX Repsol]

I just realized that with all these Repsol owners interested in these rotors, I'm not going to be so special anymore.

BK, you will always be special! :shortbus:

[hondapowered]

I am in for sure but I want to hear the pros and cons on 310mm versus 320mm spacers versus no spacers and the carriers availbale now versus the new material and of course the $$$ , I will probably cheap out and get the 310mm with the standard carrier material but I would like to know and HELL YA on the blue with red rivet set up that's what I want thanks for the suggestion BK :evilgrin:

[browningbuck]

yeah i have to know $$$ that is the biggest thing for me:mad: but i would love to wait for all of it:D

[Nakkers]

Need to find out what shipping to Australia will be worth for a full set of front and rear too ?

[Jacobs Dad]

Sweet! I will make up a new thread for people interested in the new rotors.

I'm thinking Repsol Blue carriers with Red rivets would match my Pazzo levers perfectly. :)

Also, will you still be offering matching rear rotors?

I'm thinking BK might be on to a great color scheme here! :+1:

[MogNo1]

I'm in also.....same question as the other guys.....what size is better and what color comibations are available? I'd be after red but the question is what would be red and what wouldnt? Any idea of a price for full set front and back? Also this lighter and stronger version to be out near the end of the year.....performance still the same or is the lightweight factor its main advantage? what is the actual difference between the 2 in weight? Maybe a few pictures from CTSMoto on exactly whats what and what parts can be colored and what isnt......for me atleast pictures speak a thousand words.....might be helpful for the other guys!

[CTSmoto]

I'm in also.....same question as the other guys.....what size is better and what color comibations are available? I'd be after red but the question is what would be red and what wouldnt? Any idea of a price for full set front and back? Also this lighter and stronger version to be out near the end of the year.....performance still the same or is the lightweight factor its main advantage? what is the actual difference between the 2 in weight? Maybe a few pictures from CTSMoto on exactly whats what and what parts can be colored and what isnt......for me atleast pictures speak a thousand words.....might be helpful for the other guys!

What color do you want. We have access to 11 colors. the carriers and the rivets can be anodized any color combos you want. We don't have standard colors at this time. We are only offering this to the Repsol forum. I will make any color combo you want.

The new carrier material and rivet material available at the end of the year will be 1/2 to 3/4 of a pound lighter than our existing model. The 310mm rotors we make now are 1 full pound lighter than the stock 310mm rotors on the honda now and they are .5mm thicker giving you better feedback at the lever. BK can speak t this as he has a set on his bike.

Lighter rotors equal quicker stop times as well as a reduced moment of inertia. Realistically the weight savings from rotors alone isn't significant. If you realy want to feel the difference in starts and stops you need drop a significant amount of rotational weight. Light weight wheels like mag or aluminum or even carbon will make more of a noticable difference than rotors alone. Again BK can speek to this as he has Forged aluminum wheels, Ceramic bearings and light weight rotors.


Mike
CTSmoto

[Big Kahuna]

Mike, what about the rear rotors? Are you still cutting them to match?

[CTSmoto]

Mike, what about the rear rotors? Are you still cutting them to match?


I am actually working on a custom rear to match the front. I will spend some time next week looking at the possibilty of making the rear floating.

Mike
CTSmoto

[TX Repsol]

This design is the Revolution Series.

OK, I have to ask. Does this mean there are other designs available with the same performance characteristics?

[CTSmoto]

OK, I have to ask. Does this mean there are other designs available with the same performance characteristics?

Not yet. One design at a time.....

Mike
CTSmoto

[DavesRepsol]

I am definently in, been patiently waiting on these awesome rotor's.

[DarkStarsRepsol]

Did we miss the cost for these rotors?

[CTSmoto]

Did we miss the cost for these rotors?

The retail is $750-$800 a set. 320 uprade kits are more expensive wih the addition of new spacers and new SS caliper bolts.

I am working on a price for you guys.

When I work up a cost I will post it up.

Mike
CTSmoto

[DarkStarsRepsol]

The retail is $750-$800 a set. 320 uprade kits are more expensive wih the addition of new spacers and new SS caliper bolts.

I am working on a price for you guys.

When I work up a cost I will post it up.

Mike
CTSmoto

Thank you Mike!

[ogie]

I would be all over this but I just broke the bank on a boat.....the family was feeling neglected so I had to drop some coin on something besides my bikes.:mad:

[6speed]

The retail is $750-$800 a set. 320 uprade kits are more expensive wih the addition of new spacers and new SS caliper bolts.

I am working on a price for you guys.

When I work up a cost I will post it up.

Mike
CTSmoto

is that front and rear or just front?

[HARALD SPLODNIK]

count me out--!
not at these prices!!!

[Nakkers]

Are we getting any closer to a firm price on these yet :(

[MikeR]

dohhh:doh::doh:thats outa my Pocket range...:eek:

[Big Kahuna]

Remember, those prices are retail. Mike has promised to work up a much better deal for all the forum members that have waited so long for these things to come out.

He's actually shipping product now for the Suzuki models, he just needs to get things finalized for the dished Honda carriers. :)

[cowboyadam]

With my luck finding orange powder coat, I may have rotors before my new rims are ready.

[hondapowered]

Thanks for the update :D This is gonna be awesome and remember fellas you can get $55 to 80 on your stock rotors in good cond so you can deduct that from what your paying on the new ones :p

[Repsol47]

Thanks for the update :D This is gonna be awesome and remember fellas you can get $55 to 80 on your stock rotors in good cond so you can deduct that from what your paying on the new ones :p

For the set? Hell, I'll buy those from ya.

[hondapowered]

:D that would be each rotor there KINGY :D

[Big Kahuna]

Hey all, I know there was a lot of talk about the Galfer deal at the races, that being front and rear rotors for $600 with new pads.

Mike assured me that he will be making a comparable offer to the members here. He's still working out the details and a new site for the rotors.

Here's a little info that I can share. Galfer is big business and there is no problem with that. CTSmoto has a smaller product number and rather than test a few products per lot, they inspect every single rotor to make sure it meets the correct measurements.

Mike isn't just offering fancy cut rotors, he's offering new engineered components that will contain new patented SS and aluminum technologies. The gang at CTSmoto is frantically working on producing the aluminum stock needed for our dished rotors. Our rotors require much more machining and treatments to get them just right. Rather than pass this extra cost onto all of the Honda owners, Mike is taken a little extra time to find the best match for all of us without any additional cost.

Galfer is a great product, and there will be no hard feelings for those that decide to jump ship on these rotors. But those of you that are willing to wait just a bit longer, I think will be pleasantly rewarded with some awesome rotors that look great and perform even better. :)

[Nakkers]

I've waited this long a bit longer won't matter The CTS is heaps better looking than the Galfer imho

[hondapowered]

+10 on better looking, better performance , and better for HONDA rock on thanks for the update and what about those cool ceramic bearings some of us roll with now???:evilgrin:

[MogNo1]

Agreed......can wait abit longer......any idea on a time frame here of when they are likely to become available?

BTW......think I prefer your old avitar pic BK! :D

[cowboyadam]

Cant wait to read the post that says these things are ready to go. Still patiently waiting ;)

[DarkStarsRepsol]

Add me to the patiently waiting list.......

[CTSmoto]

We now several aaplications. Unfortunately no Hondas yet. We will have Honda apps in the next few weeks. I will keep you all updated.

Mike
CTSmoto

[repsol78]

Any news about the prices?

[CTSmoto]

I will sell them to the members here at dealer cost. The price will not be posted but I will have BK send info to those interested.

Mike
CTSmoto

[big_kendogg34]

I'm interested in some what is the price BK:D

[Nakkers]

I will sell them to the members here at dealer cost. The price will not be posted but I will have BK send info to those interested.

Mike
CTSmoto

Wow thanks Mike and bring it on BK :D

[AWD_ENVY]

I too have been waiting for a price to show up before I made the commitment. Since it's not publicly posted, I guess this is my price request. BK ?:D

[Big Kahuna]

I'll get you all prices as soon as Mike gets them to me. Sounds like it should be in the next few weeks. I'm getting excited too!

[Big Kahuna]

Here's a little info I stole from Motomummy's site. :)

CTSMoto Revolution Front Rotors Product Description:


Full floating design ( optional noiseless float upon request )
Carriers come standard hard ano black or bronze with option of 9 different color rivets ( carriers are available in other colors upon request )
Lighter than OEM
Improved brake lever feel
Less force at lever to produce same stopping force
Patented design continually cleans the pad surface
Revolutionary design not only looks cool it actually runs cooler than any other stainless steel rotor currently available
The Standard Black and bronze carriers and rivets are made from Alcoa Billet aluminum and hard anodized to military spec type 3 finish to improve durability
Proprietary formulation of High Carbon 420SS that is spun cast in a patented process that produces a radial grain structure with a near zero porocity improving the strength and durability. The design is cut using a waterjet to reduce the amount of heat introduced into the part while cutting. This prevents work hardening and microfractures that can form during the heat treat stress relieving process. After HT/SR the rotors are Black Zinc passivated to protect the non contact surfaces from corrosion and the elements. The Zinc coated rotors are then double disk ground to ensure they are flat and parallel. The last step is to Cryogenically treat the rotors to stabilize and reduce any remaining internal stresses in the metal.
All parts are inspected 100%. We do not inspect by lots we inspect every single part 100%
The entire product is manufactured using materials and machines made right here in the USA.


I'm heading to Mike's shop this weekend. I'm hoping that he'll have something to show me when I get there. :)

[Nakkers]

Here's a little info I stole from Motomummy's site. :)



I'm heading to Mike's shop this weekend. I'm hoping that he'll have something to show me when I get there. :)

Cool :thumbsup:

[Nakkers]

I've put my order in for the CTS Rotors, but it looks like I'll have some lovely Carozzeria Vstar rims soon . Will these still fit or do I need to mention this in the order ?:confused2:

[Big Kahuna]

I've put my order in for the CTS Rotors, but it looks like I'll have some lovely Carozzeria Vstar rims soon . Will these still fit or do I need to mention this in the order ?:confused2:The rotors will fit the CZ wheels just as the stock rotors are swappable. :) You'll need a new rear sprocket though. :)

[Nakkers]

The rotors will fit the CZ wheels just as the stock rotors are swappable. :) You'll need a new rear sprocket though. :)

Cool :thumbsup:

[MogNo1]

Rotars on order??? Who??? What??? Where??? Someone forgotten about me? Not heard a dickybird on the price and so on....where is this message we were suppost to get?

[Nakkers]

Rotars on order??? Who??? What??? Where??? Someone forgotten about me? Not heard a dickybird on the price and so on....where is this message we were suppost to get?

Alex my order is on the very same list as yours, and I don't know anymore than you do . I seriously hope its not for a few weeks now though as i just forked out for Carozzerria repsol colored rims and Ohlins forks. :weirdface:

[Big Kahuna]

No price yet, but Mike said he will hook us up, similar to the Galfer price with new pads and such.

I saw his whole setup a few weeks ago when I visited the shop. I have pics and everything, just need to post them up. Mike was very close to getting them ready for release. I'll check again today to see where we are at.

Also, I just saw a pic of Mike's new floating rear rotor prototype. Hot damn it's pretty sick! :)

[repsol78]

Can't wait to see the pictures! :cool:

[Big Kahuna]

Here's a photo of the new full floating rear rotor. Now I'm never going to be able to sleep until Mike gets us are rotors.

7732

You're killing me Smalls!!!!!

[MogNo1]

Looks sweet......so that mean the rear rotor will have a carrier with rivets with optional colors like the front rotors? Will the rear be available at the same time as the front for one single purchase? Now the million dollar question......when can we have them? Seems CTSmoto is close to being ready that being said they must have some indication on when they will be ready? Few weeks? Month? Any word on a price yet?

[Nakkers]

Looking good, I'll excuse the fact they are on zuk

[LawnDart]

the new rear looks great.... I need one, well not so much need but you know

[hondapowered]

WOW thats sick :evilgrin: CTS is F'ing cool , cant wait for the new gear !!!

[JRepsol]

Please add me to this Group Buy as soon as it becomes available.

[TX Repsol]

Please add me to this Group Buy as soon as it becomes available.

You can do so yourself in this thread...

CTSmoto Custom Rotors (http://www.repsolforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2464&referrerid=138)

[JRepsol]

Thanks TX :thumbsup:

[Big Kahuna]

Okay everyone, here we go. I'm bringing my bike into Mike's shop next week to begin test fitting the new rotors both front and back. So that means they will be available very soon. The first run will be for the 310 version so for all you '07 guys that are hell bent on keeping your 320 setup them you're going to have to wait just a bit longer for the fitments.

But if you're thinking about going with the new 310 setup you will not be disappointed as they will far out perform even the stock 320 system you are already used to. :)

[MogNo1]

Sweet...cheers BK.....any word on a price yet? I would like to know how many pennies I need to be saving for these beauties! :D

[playajay98]

I'm excited too guys. I remember when I first thought about getting a Repsol in '06 I saw those rotors on BK's bike at another forum. These are the reason I even ended up here and I'll be super excited to put them on to get that 'Kahuna' feeling!

[Big Kahuna]

I'm getting so exited!!!

I called Mike today to make sure that we are still on schedule for the fitments next week. Seems as though things are going good and he should have everything ready soon after the bike gets there. Seems there are some special needs given to fit the full floating rears to the CZ wheels. Mike will use my bike to make sure that the new full floating rears will work with the CZ wheels, as well as the stockers.

I chose my colors to be Repsol Blue carriers with Red rivets to match the colors of my Pazzo levers. Mike will send me the pics of the rotors as soon as they are fitted, possibly as early as late next week.

He also informed me that the 320 rotors are moving along sooner than anticipated and might be ready as early as mid November.

I need to double check about the final cost, but if you are still interested and have signed up in this thread, pm me and I'll let you know what we are looking at.

http://www.repsolforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2464

I know some on the list have run into hard times with the bikes lately, so please have a look and if you signed up, let me know that you are indeed still interested. :)

CTSmoto has launched their new site with more info on the new rotors:

Revolution Rotors
http://www.rotorrevolution.com

[cowboyadam]

Good to hear BK. Shoot me a quote on my set-up, blue carriers, gold rivets in the 320s.

Need to know how many Saturdays I need to work to get the extra $$ for these things.

[Big Kahuna]

See the new thread here: Group Buy: Revolution Rotors (http://www.repsolforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3204)